• Pop!_Planet is still very much under development. Data for the wiki is being sourced from the Arch Linux and Ubuntu wikis, along with a bunch of completely unique content specific to Pop!_OS, and sourcing, converting and updating that content takes time; please be patient. If you can't find what you're looking for here, check the Arch Linux and Ubuntu wikis.

Rebase POP! on PureOS

Gnuserland

Member
Jul 2, 2019
74
9
8
write.snopyta.org
Hello there,

this is a pure provocation but modern distro should be rolling while Ubuntu is a release based distro. Ubuntu has a big issue respect Debian, while it offers a bunch of software more it has for any cycle almost the 70% of the packages, the ones available on Universe, buggy. I am just a experiencing that all the packages I have to download from Universe have issues already fixed on Debian testing, you can open a bug request but this eventually will be fixed in the next release.

Dear POP! team have your ever thought to use another distribution as base? Like Debian?

The time where was impossible installing NVIDIA drivers on Debian is ended from at least ten years... If you don't want deal with the Debian community you can deal with PureOS which is developed by another company with a clear structure behind. There are many thing that POP! and PureOS already share together, but I want point out in particular that PureOS already uses coreboot which is one of your current goal.


Eventually two US companies working on the same platform is a big advantage for all...
 

mmstick

Member
System76 Staff
Founding Member
Dec 15, 2018
189
116
15
26
Denver, Colorado
This is a tricky subject because there are tradeoffs to every distribution base.

Debian unstable can be more unstable than Ubuntu stable releases, and lacks many of the packages and support that are available for Ubuntu. Think of all the proprietary applications that only provide Ubuntu packages, with dynamic linking to system libraries that are assumed to be the exact same version as is available in the Ubuntu release it targeted.

Flatpak can change that, but many software vendors are not yet targeting it, and the unofficial flatpak packaging of their products tends to malfunction in various ways. Today, Ubuntu provides the best leverage so that we can focus more on developing exciting new products for the desktop, and enhancing what's already there.
 

Gnuserland

Member
Jul 2, 2019
74
9
8
write.snopyta.org
I see your reason however the fact that proprietary software is available on Ubuntu or generally Linux is the last of my preoccupation, while software I rely on that is working on Debian testing and unstable simply keep buggy in Ubuntu because Canonical doesn't care about those. I mean if GNU/Linux must become the roses garden for proprietary software I will move to a BSD operative system. Flatpak and Snaps have a lot of limitations but the packages on Debian testing are good for a working scenario; you may also consider OpenSuse Tumbleweed, even Arch. All these distros take care about all the packages they provide.

On the long term I consider the support of proprietary software (excluding the necessary drivers blobs when needed) the reason why people eventually leave any Linux but specifically all the distros that are focused on new comers are destinated to lose their users. As a matter of fact when people start to use distro like Debian, Fedora or Arch which do not helps with proprietary software they stick with them and they will never leave Linux.
 

bitspace

New member
Mar 15, 2019
5
2
4
50
I see your reason however the fact that proprietary software is available on Ubuntu or generally Linux is the last of my preoccupation, while software I rely on that is working on Debian testing and unstable simply keep buggy in Ubuntu because Canonical doesn't care about those. I mean if GNU/Linux must become the roses garden for proprietary software I will move to a BSD operative system. Flatpak and Snaps have a lot of limitations but the packages on Debian testing are good for a working scenario; you may also consider OpenSuse Tumbleweed, even Arch. All these distros take care about all the packages they provide.

On the long term I consider the support of proprietary software (excluding the necessary drivers blobs when needed) the reason why people eventually leave any Linux but specifically all the distros that are focused on new comers are destinated to lose their users. As a matter of fact when people start to use distro like Debian, Fedora or Arch which do not helps with proprietary software they stick with them and they will never leave Linux.
I think the ability to relatively easily use proprietary software is a huge draw to newer Linux users. The vast majority of desktop computer users today don't care about open source principles. Most Linux users care, of course, but if we want to expand the pool of Linux users, we need to provide the ability to run proprietary software. A big entry point there is gaming, and the huge advances Linux has made just in the past year in that regard.

We can continue to be a fringe element of computer users as we have been for > 25 years, or we can make some concessions and draw more people into the fold of the best operating system.
 

Gnuserland

Member
Jul 2, 2019
74
9
8
write.snopyta.org
I think the ability to relatively easily use proprietary software is a huge draw to newer Linux users. [...]
I kindly disagree, the use of proprietary software on Linux provokes a lot of counter side effects and it sticks in the people mind the fact that professional/reliable/cool/whatever software must be proprietary or commercial as usual and eventually they leave Linux; because if you foster the culture of the proprietary software the only outcome is people eventually coming back to the proprietary solutions (Win, macOS, ChromeOS, etc...).

It is just good in the short terms and maybe is fine for a hardware seller but it in the long terms is a sure failure.
 

mmstick

Member
System76 Staff
Founding Member
Dec 15, 2018
189
116
15
26
Denver, Colorado
For many people, avoiding proprietary software is not an option, especially when there are no suitable open source alternatives. There are many proprietary tools and technologies that academics, professionals, researchers, etc. require in order to perform their job functions. There may even be some legitimate reasons for why the software is proprietary, such as with services like Dropbox, Steam, and Spotify.

Preventing end users from having access to proprietary software is a form of gate-keeping, which only harms the end user. It's fine to strive to be fully open source, but it's ethically wrong to force that choice on others. If the people cannot get what they need and want, they will likely go back to Windows and OS X where they can, or choose another Linux distribution that is supportive of their use cases.

If an individual or company decides that proprietary works best for them, they have the freedom to make that choice, and you have the freedom to not use their products. Proprietary software isn't necessarily malicious, nor does it have bad intentions. It is simply a form that software can be distributed in. It doesn't mean that they have ill intentions for their end users.

Anyone who operates a business off creating software will likely not want their competitors to redistribute their efforts without paying a dime for the development costs. However, the software business model has changed since the earlier days of the software industry, and many vendors now see a lot of value in being supportive of open source. They may still be contributing to open source in some way if they rely on open source libraries in their project.

Additionally, in order for proprietary software to be successful, it has to compete against open source software. Any proprietary product that is not able to compete with an open source solution is unlikely to succeed. It must provide value in areas that other solutions are not accounting for. For some areas of software, it's a losing game to compete against open source.

So, in short, it's important that we can support the needs of our end users first and foremost. We do not want to act as gate-keepers to tell users what they can or cannot have. If it's possible for them to have their workflow on Linux, then we want to enable them to use Linux with their workflow -- open source, or otherwise.
 

Gnuserland

Member
Jul 2, 2019
74
9
8
write.snopyta.org
I disagree with your statement on many fronts. And proprietary software is a big issue for the floss ecosystem, disincentives people to learn and discovery alternatives, promote unsure software on your computer and eventually will promote also the piracy.

If you believe in the 4 freedoms then closed software is unethical for definition, if you just consider that open source is better as method for developing code you are prone to be more tolerant with proprietary software. Unfortunately proprietary software always put on top of their end users a lock-in which is always annoying. I would be less harsh with proprietary software if all together decide to keep free (as standard) any format file, promoting a full integrated interoperability between closed and open source software; but this will never happen.

Anyway I am not saying to prevent people to use proprietary software anyone is free to use whatever he wants on his/her computer, I am just saying that encourage the culture of closed software on (GNU)Linux is a bad choice, closed software, from my point of view, must be always the last solution.

Today I am totally able to make my work with FLOSS software, if I would thought that for making my job I had to use only the same closed applications I would never learn anything, I would probably stick with a Mac and I would never buy a System76 laptop. This is crystal and clear.

And you can see wherever that people are interested in Linux but as a "stacks" and no one uses Linux as desktop in those conferences. People think that Steam will boost the Linux desktop once and forever but I am immune to this idiosyncrasy, I heard a lot of podcasts of people fighting for the floss and then switching to speak of Steam's games as these weren't closed software as well. If you want to play video games buy a console instead.

My last comment is on Ubuntu. Canonical was able to use the Linux Desktop to growth its market in the server (eating Debian which depends on). It is almost admirable if you think that with having just the majority of the 1% of desktop share it has been able to obtain such notoriety on the server side winning over bigger companies. After Unity Canonical almost drops the Desktop it is important keep the things enough easier to continue to feed all the these podcasts and blogs and youtube channels as part of the its marketing strategy. And all the other Distro based on Ubuntu are doing the same, targeting just new comers, but Ubuntu has a lot of issues and when you become aware of it you need to use a more reliable distro.

By the way I don't want continue anymore on this field, I have my ideas and I don't want convince anyone about my opinions, I am already passed away this phase, my only pleasure is having a computer that works as I like, unfortunately POP! has its quirks and I hope I can help some ways to improve these...
 

justXuX

Member
Mar 29, 2019
41
16
6
26
Moldova
From what I had seen from Canonical's recent actions (2-3 years), they aggresively ping companies to target Ubuntu (and not only server side), making deals, helping companies package software into snaps, fund events that gather all kinds of developers to improve desktop and cloud ecosystem. No other company is doing it so insistent from what I can see. I think we all will benefit from that.
So basing Pop_Os on Ubuntu was a good call (maybe not for everyone), because at least now there is no better alternative. It doesn't need to satisfy everyone, that's the point of Linux.
Great we have Arch, Debian, Fedora and likes.
I think System76 super-devs strive to make a better desktop experience, but we can't have it all. Thanks for that :) .
 

Members online

Latest posts

Latest projects

Forum statistics

Threads
364
Messages
1,737
Members
294
Latest member
8bg