• Pop!_Planet is still very much under development. Data for the wiki is being sourced from the Arch Linux and Ubuntu wikis, along with a bunch of completely unique content specific to Pop!_OS, and sourcing, converting and updating that content takes time; please be patient. If you can't find what you're looking for here, check the Arch Linux and Ubuntu wikis.
  • Happy New Year!

    I'll get straight to the point.

    When I started Pop!_Planet, I launched it because I saw a need for a centralized community for Pop!_OS. To be frank, I never expected the level of popularity it has achieved. Over the last year, we have gone from under 50 users, to almost 400 users. That's awesome! However... it also comes with a downside. We are rapidly running out of disk space on our server, and the bandwidth costs go up every month.

    Pop!_Planet is not affiliated with System76 in any way, and is funded completely out of pocket. From day one, I said that I'd never use on-site ads (I hate them as much as you do), so the only monetization we get is through donations. Right now, the donations we receive don't even cover our overhead.

    I know that most users will ignore this message, and that's ok. However, if even a few of our users are willing and able to donate a few dollars to help offset our expenses, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Support Pop!_Planet

    Thank you for your time,

    Dan Griffiths
    Pop!_Planet Founder

Running multiple Linux OS

joyingaming

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I read on the smartnews about the new Distro and figured I'd give it a whirl. I have been working with linux for quite awhile now, now that that really means anything lol. However to get to the point, I was frankly surprised when my grub menu disappeared after installation was completed. Being miffed, dismayed, horrible new impressions all there. Rather than going through the tech of trying to rebuild grub from the instructions which albeit were detailed. Could have been created with simple examples. So since I m done ranting, here is a simple solution. I simply installed a fresh installation of Linux mint "Mate" on an empty partition and bing batta boom, my grub was back, I got to keep the funky new system 76 install, and grub back to normal, Huzzah. Easy Peasy, no headaches ! Ps, it certainly would have been nice to know that system 76 eats grubs. somewhere in the installation process with a big warning in RED. I m currently running Ubuntu 16.04 , Linux Mint Tara, Linux Mint Mate, and finally System 76
 

mmstick

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It doesn't "eat" GRUB. It simply sets systemd-boot as the default boot loader during install. I would recommend switching your other distributions to systemd-boot. You can define boot entries in `/boot/efi/loader/entries`. It's much easier to work with than having to maintain a GRUB config on each OS.
 

joyingaming

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Jan 10, 2020
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Oh yes we are aware of the systemd-boot, but choose to use the effortlessness of linux Mint to write all of my grub entries for me, thereby saving me the time of trying to figure out your new systemd-boot which I personally don't find advantageous at all. Also , if you really want something to grow and prosper it helps if you provide wonderful examples of in your system you actually define boot entries in "boot/efi/loader/entries. I personally am using bio instead of efi. So do you actually provide examples of the required boot entries. Don't just throw statements out there like that unless you are actually going to follow thru with helping people to use your new approach.
And besides the metaphor of eating grubs I got a big chuckle just thinking about it, and it released the frustration of having to watch my grub menu disappear after reboot.
 

derpOmattic

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It is not generally known that systemd, the init system that nearly all modern Linux operating systems are using now, has a documented standard. In those specifications it outlines the best practice for the boot loader. It would be logical to think the creators of systemd know the simplest way to implement their boot loader specification. To me, it looks like System76 (Pop!_OS) are one of the only distributions who are actually following Systemd's recommended specifications for the bootloader. If you were to read the document, you will see that systemd acknowledge the complexity and mess that exists among distributions when multi-booting.

There’s also little cooperation between multiple distributions in dual-boot (or triple, … multi-boot) setups. We’d like to improve this situation by getting everybody to commit to a single boot configuration format that is based on drop-in files, and thus is robust, simple, works without rewriting configuration files and is free of namespace clashes.
The boot configuration format that systemd are asking developers to follow is exactly what System76 are doing with Pop!_OS. In reality, the error you are experiencing is actually the fault of distributions that fail to follow the recommendations for the init system they are utilizing.

Please also notice that Systemd say that their recommended way of doing things is;

is robust, simple, works without rewriting configuration files
This indicates to me that the distributions that are being mentioned as effortless, Easy Peasy, no headaches,
are actually more complex than they need to be and are actually the cause of the problems. By failing to adhere to their chosen init system's recommended way of implementing the boot loader, they're introducing unnecessary complexity.
 
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joyingaming

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Thanks for your informed reply. Yes, it goes without saying that the implementation of new standards brings with it the change and pain of implementing that change. Well yes as far as efficiency, and having to rewrite configuration files and such for each operating system, methods, I am all for that as I actually and a coder as well. To me transparency is key and having communication to the end user is an important consideration. So it brings us to this situation, you have data on 5 different operating systems, and of course this information is dear to the heart, including mobile apps, work in progress etc.. You are the user that decides that he's heard good things about the new distro and wants to take it for a spin. So we get to the installation goes in , and than on reboot, access to the other operating systems are gone. So I read through the help for answers.. didn't see something I could easily implement without putting in some time. My time matters to me and I look for the solution that is quick, clarity, and gets the job done. Look at it from the perspective of a new user loading your operating system. So all in all, its kinda of a win-win situation. I get my data back, my menu is happy, I get to keep your new operating system to give it a second look under the hood to see if its worth the time to invest in it further.
And I do respect those that take on the challenge to write their own flavor of Ubuntu, I've given it some thought on occasion as well. The difference I m seeing is that in those complex systems that your speak of may implement their OS, and the coding to accomplish their assigned functions, may not be as efficient, however, the one thing they have going for them is the community. You have others who have run into the same difficulty or issue, and others who have written clear concise examples to help clear the issue. To me the point is to be able to communicate the complexity in a simple way that others can find easy to implement. So Linux mint, Ubuntu, to name a few, as you know have community to help translate that complexity into end user speak to help get the issues resolved. Having compassion for the person on the other end is important, as it will determine how other people will want to try your product. Without that compassion in every aspect of communication, people tend to tune out what is said. Bottom line we all want to get to the same place. Difference is how we get there. Thanks for the discussion, have a nice day !
 

mmstick

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Dec 15, 2018
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If you're installing multiple operating systems on a system, you're already well outside what the average user does, so you have to have the know how to do this. The same things happens with GRUB when it nukes the configurations you defined in the grub.cfg in another Linux distribution.

All of the new Linux distributions are using systemd-boot (Solus OS, Pop!_OS, etc.), and there's a **lot** of documentation on it. It's **the** standard for EFI installations. It's much easier for end users to work with than GRUB, because you don't need to have a "master OS" that probes every disk on the system for GRUB-compatible operating systems. Each OS only has to maintain their own `.conf` file(s), which contains a simple key/value pair.

systemd-boot is great because it doesn't try to be more than it needs to be. GRUB is an entire OS, with its own kernel, userspace, and file system drivers. systemd-boot is simply a lightweight EFI binary that displays a list of options after parsing the loader entries, and checking for existence of other boot loaders installed on the same EFI partition. It isn't responsible for initializing hardware, or probing file systems.

systemd-boot is the reason why System76 Galago and Darter Pro laptops are able to boot to the Linux desktop in less than a second. Instead of wasting several seconds initializing the GRUB OS, initializing hardware, and then handing things off to the Linux kernel; systemd-boot has your EFI firmware to use the Linux kernel to boot and initialize itself. Which leads to quicker initialization of devices, and dropping you to a graphical login screen in half a second.

Ubuntu and Linux Mint are currently behind the curve. It would be in everyone's best interest if they were to adopt the Boot Loader Specification standard. It's been around for several years now, so it's far from being new or special. The specification for entry configs is so simple that they can be edited by hand, and writing tools to manage EFI entries is suddenly incredibly easy.

GRUB only has one use case today, to be honest: legacy BIOS support. GRUB was necessary back then, because MBR tables could only support defining one boot loader per table. Now we have GUID tables with EFI partitions, and EFI firmware with intuitive user interfaces. EFI firmware can do everything that GRUB previously solved, so there's no need to waste 3-5 seconds at boot warming up a redundant OS to serve features we already have in firmware.
 
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